In this reflective episode Cassandra Patrovani shares a perspective on belonging that feels especially relevant in today’s workplace—despite being shaped long before it became part of the mainstream conversation.
Drawing from her life as a global immigrant and her work in leadership, behavior, and inclusion, Cassandra explores why genuine curiosity—not self-promotion—is often the key to successful integration. She challenges the assumption that visibility comes from centering ourselves, offering instead a quieter, more effective path: listening deeply, pacing disclosure, and building trust one relationship at a time.
This conversation invites immigrant and globally mobile professionals to rethink how belonging is formed—across cultures, organizations, and identities—and how leadership often begins when we shift the spotlight outward.
Transcript: Accentuate! Podcast
Host: Rhonda Gardner
Guest: Cassandra, management consultant
This transcript has been lightly edited for readability. Personal circumstances and roles reflect the time of the interview.
Growing up across countries
Rhonda: Hello, everyone. This is the Accentuate! Podcast, amplifying the voices of immigrants and refugees for success in the workplace. I’m Rhonda Gardner, the host, an immigrant from Trinidad and Tobago living in the US. Today my guest is Cassandra Patrovani. Cassandra interviewed me for a job many years ago in Trinidad, and we’ve stayed connected on LinkedIn. Thank you for being here to share your story.
Cassandra: You’re very welcome, Rhonda. It’s a pleasure.
Rhonda: Can you start by telling us a little about yourself and what you do?
Cassandra: I’ll keep the introduction within the context of what this is about. Like you, Rhonda, I was born in Trinidad. I migrated to the United Kingdom when I was six years old with my mum, who had migrated years before.
I grew up, I would say, as an immigrant all over the world. We lived in many places [the full description is unclear in the supplied transcript]. That has impacted my work and the context of my work. Inclusion, diversity, and equity are a big thing now. As I reflect on it, especially because of the work I do now, I’ve probably been leading that work for about 20 years.
As a management consultant, I specialize in behavior. That comes out of a career that progressed from systems into management consulting, human resources, and communications. I now bring all of that together. Most of my work calls for diversity, inclusion, and a focus on belonging. So it’s interesting, the work that you’re doing.
Her mother’s migration and the meaning of belonging
Rhonda: As an immigrant and a leader in your field, what does inclusion of immigrants and refugees in the workplace mean to you?
Cassandra: My personal experiences have to come out here, Rhonda. It was only recently, going through my mum’s memoirs and writings, that it occurred to me that when she first migrated at 21 from Trinidad to the UK, she did so, as we say now, undercover.
My mum wanted to be a doctor and was accepted to study medicine. Because of funds at the time, she couldn’t do that. She was determined to go away to have a better life. For me, that’s where the life of immigrants begins. People have a passion and a reason for going, regardless of the sacrifices, because they want to create something better.
I benefited from that, but it was a sacrifice for my mum. She left me with my grandmother when I was one year old. In the Caribbean, we call it being a barrel child. I was a barrel child. I didn’t join my mother in the UK until I was six.
She went through a lot of struggles. Even though we were still under British rule and had that connection, it wasn’t easy. It was only two years later, through her studies [further wording unclear], that she was able to settle down and become a resident in the UK. Before that, she had to leave every six months. That led her to travel and see Europe, which was a good thing. But she struggled through it and couldn’t get me to join her until I was six. That must have been a difficult sacrifice, leaving your only child at one year old.
Being an immigrant became a way of life for us. My mum and I built our lives and progressed based on where we wanted to go next. I’ve found that to be a common thread when I talk to immigrants in my diversity and inclusion work. Regardless of all the drama happening now, the world is built on immigrants.
We focus a lot on the United States, but I lived in Australia and New Zealand for years. Immigration shaped those places too. In Australia, that history includes prisoners who were sent there. When you think about belonging as an immigrant, it’s often difficult to say, “These are my roots.” We have to look at immigration, movement, and migration with different eyes these days, particularly when we think about the workforce.
Moving to New Zealand
Rhonda: I agree. “Where are you from?” is a complicated question for me. I was born in Trinidad and Tobago. I’ve lived in the US for years. I live in Atlanta, but New York feels more like home than anywhere else. So where is home? You’ve lived in Australia and New Zealand. What led you to move to those countries?
Cassandra: I was back in Trinidad at the time. I’m one of the few members of my family who’s been bobbing back and forth. I went to the UK and grew up there. My stepdad’s family was there, so I considered it my grounding place and home. But I was a little bit of a rebel.
I kept coming back because I didn’t know my country or my culture. My mum left at 21 and never returned, and she was happy with that. There was still something for me. I was close to my grandmother because I grew up with her. She was here, and there was the food. I kept coming back.
I got married. My first husband, whom I met here, was half English and half Trini. When that marriage collapsed, the easiest thing to do when you’ve got that migrant blood in you is to go somewhere new and refresh.
I was a regional director for the Caribbean at a leadership consultancy. They wanted to start an arm of the company in New Zealand and in India. I’d already been to India. With our mix, probably two-thirds of me is Indian. I applied for both opportunities, and they selected me to go to New Zealand.
I didn’t know anyone, and there was nothing on the ground for the organisation. But being a traveller is something you learn as an immigrant. You develop wonderful skills. I landed there, spent three years building it, and they asked me to stay. But I came back to Trinidad.
Returning home and feeling out of place
Rhonda: Before I moved to the US, I vacationed here on two occasions and went back to Trinidad and Tobago. After moving, you realise vacationing somewhere and living there are two different experiences. How have your experiences lived up to your expectations as an immigrant? How have they fallen short?
Cassandra: That’s always a tough question, and I want to be kind, particularly to my birth country. Funny enough, most of my negative experiences living in a country have been in my birth country.
I can’t say I’ve had any particularly impactful negative experiences as an immigrant. I grew up in the UK. My mum was an expat living and working in Africa for Oxfam, so I went back and forth there. My stepdad was a migrant himself. He was in the military and ran security for the Qatar government, so we moved around a lot. My mum eventually migrated to the US. I’ve lived in New Zealand, Australia, and other places.
As an immigrant in other countries, I went in with the objective of learning, growing, and improving. The people I went in search of, who found me, or whom I connected with were engaging, positive people. My family and I have stayed in touch with many of them over the years. They became dear friends.
The challenge came every time I returned to my birth country. I feel alien to my own home country now, which is very different from when I started. That brings me back to inclusion and belonging. I no longer feel included or that I belong. I no longer identify with what my country has become.
So once again, my feet are itching. Now, especially with a 12-year-old daughter, I’m trying to decide where my immigrant boots will take me. It’s a funny dichotomy, but I feel furthest away from my birth country.
Rhonda: I can relate to that. You’ve lived away from it for so long. It’s changed, you’re changing, and the people there are changing. Sometimes you move in different directions and have to come to terms with that.
I know I’ve struggled with how much of my original culture to hold on to, what to let go of, and what to adopt from American culture. Have you come to terms with that struggle? Do you feel at home anywhere else, and how do you reconcile that?
Finding a sense of home in New Zealand
Cassandra: I don’t think I’ve fully reconciled it. In behaviour work, there’s something described as a hero’s journey. You leave your home, go out, learn, adapt, change, and return. You return with a goal and a desire to give back some of what you’ve learned and benefited from. But that depends on your home country being receptive to it.
My experience hasn’t been a welcoming one. I don’t know if it’s because I didn’t grow up here and don’t have those niche connections. I didn’t go to this school or live here or there. I don’t have that here.
If you ask where I feel the greatest affinity, I wouldn’t say it’s in the UK. I feel that one day I’ll return and settle permanently in New Zealand.
I lived there for three years at a time when I was going through a lot of evolution as a person. New Zealand gave freely to me. It embraced and welcomed me. Cricket helped open doors. Brian Lara was famous, our cricket team was on a high, and people were welcoming immigrants.
I got deeply involved in community integration initiatives. There were issues involving the Māori population, and a lot of people were coming in from places like Japan. They wanted people who could get others involved and open up dialogue in the community. It fit into the work that I did. I dived in, and because they embraced me so much, it was hard to leave.
I’ve been back a couple of times. Every time I go, there’s a greater pull to stay because they’re so welcoming. Perhaps it’s also because it’s a place with two main islands, like us, and a smaller place to navigate. I applied a lot of what we’d do at home to network, lime as we call it, and get to know each other. That worked really well for me.
My mum migrated to the US. As a strong Black Caribbean woman, I wasn’t sure I wanted to compete in that space and find myself there. I never pursued the US. Now, perhaps I’m looking at it through my daughter’s eyes and thinking about her opportunities and how many of my family members are there. It’s coming up again in my mind. But the greatest pull for me is still New Zealand.
Working through assumptions
Rhonda: How have misinformation or assumptions affected your integration into foreign cultures, or even coming back home?
Cassandra: I’ve had a few experiences like that. One of the most pointed ones was in New Zealand. I was working on an integration project with a group of mid-level managers. In our first session, one of the senior managers stood up, looked at me fiercely, and asked in a very disengaging manner, “How can this little Black girl from the Caribbean teach me anything that I don’t know?”
I think that experience led me into inclusion and diversity, before it was a thing like it is now. It was the kind of challenge I would probably face many times as an immigrant doing the work I did. Call it bravery, courage, or stupidity. I went head-on with him. We started out far apart, and today he’s one of my most trusted counterparts.
It took about six months to start talking to each other. He would come into the sessions, and I could see he’d shut off. There was an incident involving one of his employees, who was half Māori [the description of the other half is unclear]. He was struggling with it, and one of his supervisors came to me quietly and shared what was happening.
Very boldly, I walked into his office one Friday afternoon. I got two beers. I put one on his desk and had one myself. I said, “Are we going to toast to this conversation or not?” He said, “I don’t know what you’re going to talk about.” I said, “Let’s give it a shot.” Reluctantly, we toasted.
I didn’t tell him what the supervisor had shared. I said, “From observation, I sense there’s some tension in your group. We’ve got to move through it so we can move together. It’s right there in the mandate. If we don’t find a way to work together, this is going to fail.”
We kept talking, and I left his office close to midnight. That was the turning point. I was tapping into what we do well culturally as Trinidadians and Caribbean people. We’re big on engagement and coming together, even if it’s over a lime and a beer.
Funny enough, after I came back from New Zealand to Trinidad, he came here for Carnival with his wife and eldest son. They had a blast. I hosted them at our home.
Bringing something of your culture with you
Cassandra: That experience taught me that we all have insecurities and fears. I learned, and I value today, that most immigrants travel with a measure of openness and diversity. As carriers of it, we can stifle it to become something in another culture, or share it so we add value to that culture.
I’ve always chosen to add value by taking the best from the culture I’m in and adding to mine. That has worked and continues to work beautifully.
I recently worked with clients in Florida. My sister is there, and I invited them to her home. I cooked pelau, got some Caribbean drinks, and called it a cultural evening. I asked everybody to bring a little piece of their primary culture, recognizing that we’re all a mix of different things.
That client has asked me to do something midyear for them and their senior managers. Little things like that, in or out of the workplace, can move mountains.
Rhonda: I believe everything you just said. You try to add value and share. You’re a woman in a position of authority with clients, and you can do that. Think about a young professional who’s just joined an organisation and might be the only immigrant in their department or organisation. What tips would you give them for acclimatising and sharing their culture, so people don’t continue with misinformation about who they are or where they come from?
Getting to know people one by one
Cassandra: That’s a tricky one. There’s so much information out there. The first thing to recognise is that you’ve got to begin with a little. Begin by befriending people and getting to know them little by little, one by one.
Each of us is diverse. Different aspects of ourselves may affect each person differently. It’s important to stay self-aware and try to match different aspects of ourselves with different people.
For example, I’m an introvert. Most people don’t believe it, especially now, but I’m a chronic introvert. When I go into a new situation, I listen a lot and observe. One or two people may describe me as more forward or talkative. Others may describe me as quiet. I try to take pieces of myself and connect with each person’s style [brief wording unclear].
A mistake people make in a new setting when we talk about inclusion is pushing too hard, too soon, or too much. Remember, the people on the other side are just like us. They’re insecure, they’re timid, and they’re trying to get to know us as well. If we can move gently and approach people with kindness, it works wonders.
I was in a session last year with a group of immigrants. I’m doing work with an organisation for a second year. It started under DE&I and mushroomed into a bigger project. The CEO didn’t know that 73% of his workforce were immigrants or had a close connection to immigration [exact definition unclear]. When he discovered that, it floored him. We’ve extended the project.
That simple thing, Rhonda, is taking the time. Instead of pushing yourself onto people and expecting them to create a space for you, reverse the roles a little. Be curious about others. Ask and reach out. A simple question like, “How was your weekend?” reveals so much about somebody’s culture and interests.
That information can quietly help you connect. We often overlook those opportunities because we spend too much time with the spotlight on ourselves and expect to be the focal point.
Making room for people to participate
Rhonda: As we wrap up, is there anything else you want to share that would be helpful to someone in a new environment? You’ve shared a lot. Is there anything about your experiences that I didn’t ask?
Cassandra: I know DEI is a big thing now, but I think we’ve only just labelled it. It’s always been there. Framing it and giving it structure, texture, taste, and smell brings out the fact that people want more from an organisation, a community, a place. They want more than they’ve gotten in the past, but they also want to give more of themselves. They want to participate and be seen.
I go back to my experience in New Zealand. People reached out to me because of that difference. Because they reached out and involved me, I was open to giving. That’s connected to everything else. I became a different person in New Zealand and saw the world differently. It shaped how I travelled and did the work I did.
If we can move forward with that in mind, take that step, open our arms wide, and embrace people, we can look for how similar we are. At the root of it, each of us is a human being.
If we go back to those roots of kindness, humour, humanistic love, and sharing, even if it’s a simple “Good morning,” things will take a phenomenal turn for the better. It’s a philosophy and a lifestyle, and a way to approach the world.
Rhonda: Thank you very much, Cassandra. Thanks for sharing your story.
Cassandra: You’re very welcome, Rhonda. Thank you for having me.
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